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okay three I
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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway gatri still
abroad researching global warming it
deserves the description of the greatest
political upset since Clem Atley
defeated the Great War leader Winston
Churchill in
1945 Jeremy Corbin's Landslide Victory
as labor leader confounded bookmakers
pundits and opponents alike and probably
came as something was surprise to the
man himself too the crushing of the
openly blairite candidate Liz Kendall
she got just 4.5% of the vote despite or
maybe because of Mr Blair's repeated
interventions in the campaign was the
second most significant aspect of the
result Corbin's victory has unleashed
the most ferocious media assault in
living memory and it will have come as a
bit of a surprise to the watching public
that Jeremy Corbin did not after all
appe at Prime Minister's questions this
week armed to the teeth like a
Sandinista Guerilla some things are
already clear though just as Mrs
Thatcher once said every leader needs a
Willie it's too long ago to explain
self-evidently any labor leader needs a
Damian Damian McBride was a devastating
force of nature in defense of former
prime minister Gordon Brown and Jeremy
Corbin could have done with him at his
side this week he is at my side however
and he joins us now on board the Sputnik
thanks uh Damian why didn't he I mean I
don't know where you are in the jobs
Market but uh they really could have
done with you in the first few days I
think you made enough controversial
appointments this week without adding me
to the list well maybe but uh you know
quality class well out um the it was a
stumble of from one uh piece of bad news
to another um the uh the Long Walk The I
see late night
walk along the street which Jeremy
Corbin has to learn he can no longer do
ever again uh with a Sky News cameraman
following him and and uh one
presentational uh lapse or mistake uh
after another how did you see it as a
consumer professional yourself what
could should he have done to avoid it
the thing is once you get in the spiral
once you've you know had a Crisis happen
to you then these things just start to
escalate and arguably the sky one was
the first one and and then the shadow
cabinet appointments became incredibly
difficult because of the number of
people that refused to serve and became
very chaotic that chaos then was played
out because we got a transcript
effectively of what was going on inside
the room so you just Lurch from one
crisis to another it reminded me very
much of the period And I I was ringside
seat for this where Gordon Brown
canceled the election in October 2007
that he planned to have and then you had
one problem after another both sort of
the self-inflicted things but also just
the total bad luck you know someone
loses the child benefit discs and that
all gets blamed on Gordon it's all
hapless Gordon and and of course once
you get to that you're you're dealing
with one crisis when the next is around
the corner so they're dealing with all
the crises at the start of this week and
nobody is thinking about that Battle of
Britain ceremony and the fact that the
national anthem is going to be played so
Jeremy is then standing there having to
make a decision in real time himself
probably because nobody thought it
through in advance and told him you need
to decide whether you're singing The
Anthem or not and I don't care whether
he did or not but he needed to plan for
the media impact of that so if you're
not going to Sing the anthem then you
make that clear beforehand if you are
going to Sing the anthem then you sing
it but you don't you don't leave the
leader in that position where he's
walking along the street having to
decide whether to stop and talk or not
where he's standing in the middle of a
congregation having to decide whether to
sing the an that's why you need someone
that's anticipating these problems
anticipating the challenges and saying
right we need to think this through
let's go back to the beginning why did
someone not notice that Sky journalists
were standing outside the room where the
shadow cabinet was being formed and
listening at the door hearing every word
yeah that's uh a lapse isn't it it's a
security lapse in the House of Commons
uh apart from anything else who knew
that journalists could roam around and
EES drop on parliamentary uh business
yeah well what's interesting is that
Jeremy Corbin they said kept on coming
out the room to go to the toilet so he
knew there were journalists there but
obviously they didn't know they could be
overheard which is just I mean that's
stupid frankly you've to assume always
that if you're having those kind of
sensitive discussions then you are being
overheard and you know for goodness sake
do it in his do it in his living room
you know why do it in the House of
Commons where you're that exposed to to
everyone there but it's it's all just
symptomatic of just not planning this
and not seeing it through and it's
remarkable because for four or five
weeks we've all assumed that he would
win he should have assumed that he would
win and that he would need a sort of
carefully worked out speech to make uh
when he stood out the conference rather
than what seemed like almost a bit of a
free form ramble uh he should have known
that he was going to have these problems
in appointing a shadow cabinet and and
you've got to think those things through
in advance now they didn't do that
that's why they ended up lurching from
crisis to crisis and fantastically for
him he got up and delivered a master
class at Prime Minister quest which
studied the ship he really studed the
ship and he needed that because imagine
if that had gone the other way imagine
if that had gone badly and I think
conservative MPS are probably kicking
themselves that they didn't try and
destabilize him by greeting him in the
wall of noise um you know by trying to
sort of maintain the decorum of the of
the place so if that had gone badly I
think by the by the end of this week uh
you know it would be regarded as the
worst first week in any party leader
history yeah and who knows uh what could
have happened once uh banana skins under
underneath you you can keep on sliding
but he did stabilize the ship and I
think the two things that we've been
discussing show the strength and
weaknesses very much of the the man he's
not spun he's never spun he didn't know
you could be heard through that door cuz
he's never been in the office before no
leader of the opposition labor leader
has ever invited him in uh he is an
honest a good and honest man uh that's
why he couldn't didn't feel that he
could sing out the national anthem
because he's not a Believer uh in either
God or the queen uh but there are things
you just have to do uh when you're in
his position um but because he's a
principal person he didn't do it he's
now going to but the brilliant Wicket
that he played uh at Prime Minister's
questions is because after 33 years in
the House of Commons actually even
though you've never been a minister
never been a shadow Minister 33 years as
a parliamentarian gives you quite a good
feel for what might unset or wrong foot
the other side and I thought that he he
did it brilliantly yeah he did and I
think the the great thing about what he
did there was he's established the
technique you had you have people I mean
I'd lost count of the number of people
afterwards was saying but it was boring
and he he didn't really hold into
account they were missing the point what
he needed to do was establish that
technique and sort of you could see how
unsettled Cameron was by it and then
this becomes a technique he can play
with any way he wants and it will be
perfect for him in a week where there is
public outrage about something has done
and usually when Ed Mand would have what
people called the open goals so Ed
milleran would come along to pmqs and
everyone would say oh he's got an open
goal today against Cameron and Cameron
was brilliant in those situations
because whatever milleran said he just
ignor it and just rant about the mess
that labor had made or the or the mess
of Ed Milan's leadership and so it just
ended up being a score draw and people
would say Milan fluffed his moments now
that can't happen with Jeremy Corbin and
the reason why is when he stands up and
in calm measured tones says Steve from
bromford has asked me to express his
outrage to you at the decision that
you've taken on such and such then David
Cameron can't back and sort of just rant
about about Labor because he's got to
answer Steven romford's question and
this is the this is the Brilliance of
that technique and as you pointed out uh
alone in the British media he can he can
vary any time he likes in fact he can
make a decision as he stands up that
actually this week I'm not going to ask
Steve from Romford I'm going to ask you
this and it's about time you answered
yeah Cameron will not be expecting that
won't know when if ever that moment is
going to arrive so he's given himself as
it were another club uh that he can
choose and wrong foot the opposition
still further and and there's also as
well as s you know spontaneously
deciding to do it I would say once every
six months if you're the opposition
leader something comes into your hands
you get a leaked document or you get
some Dynamite piece of information from
a freedom of information request or a
parliamentary question you've laid down
and that's when he can really wrong foot
camera Cameron's Cameron will attend
expecting it to be whatever topical
popular issue the public have been
raising that week and instead Jeremy
Corin could say I have in my hand a
piece of paper and totally wrong foot
Cameron and this will be you know it'll
it'll be fascinating to watch how Corbin
uses that technique and as you say with
all the Parliamentary experience to go
with it now another piece that you wrote
uh again uniquely uh with which I
strongly agree uh was the comparison
between Corbin and
Atley uh which I just made in my
introduction as the last most surprising
thing that ever happened in uh British
politics tell us uh what comparisons you
see well I mean the first and most
obvious was that you know you've
represented in L constituency uh Jeremy
Corbin is the first labor leader indeed
the first leader of any major party to
represent an in lond constituency since
atly and I think in my old
constituency and of course gives you an
entirely different perspective and it's
astonishing to compare uh David
Cameron's constituency with Jeremy
Corbin and think about the different
view of the country that gives them uh
in David Cameron's constituency one in
250 people is black in a Jeremy Corbin's
constituency is one in seven the levels
of home ownership are staggeringly
different and the levels of deprivation
staggeringly different and this is where
Jeremy Corbin's politics comes from I
mean he was always academically he was
always a socialist that was what how he
was brought up
but you don't represent an area like
that for 30 years an area which is
actually you know actually faces the
issue of immigration on a daily basis
has seen its own face change as sort of
different nationalities have come into
the area over the years it's it's you
know faces serious problems with crime
massive problems with poverty massive
problems with mental health you don't
see all that for 30 years and it not
influence and shape the principles that
you have and go into politics with
that's you know what you're in politics
for and this is his great asset is that
that that authenticity that he's got
comes from those deep rooted principles
and the sense of who he represents so
that's the most important thing but I
also think you know Atley gave a
masterclass in you you don't have to
count out of the media you can be pretty
disdainful of the media and still be a
highly successful politician but just by
being a sort of straight talking guy
that we you know goes out and sells your
message but doesn't sell yourself and
and I think that's that's what's
attractive about him last word then and
in just a few words am I right in my
surmise that the 4.5% for Liz Kendall
represents the final defeat for Tony
Blair yes I mean it was devastating uh
for her and especially because she
started as the media darling and then
just couldn't cut it in our own party
and it almost shows you that there's
that break that what what would
traditionally the sort of Blair right
candidates that would work for the media
are never going to cut it with the labor
party anymore and and that's partly Tony
Blair's Legacy that he's lost the labor
party to wing of the party is he going
to leave are they going to leave is
there going to be a new party they will
always think that by staying in they
will eventually get their party back uh
and you know Tony Blair himself will go
around and identify as they always have
done who's the next Blair right
candidate who's the next uh one that's
going to ride over the hill to the
rescue and you know and there's no
shortage of candidates for that but I
don't think they'll ever win again I
tell you what this man's so good and
this subject's so important I'm going to
ask him to stay for the second half
we'll be right back
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welcome back to Sputnik we're reviewing
from our orbit of experience the initial
few days of the leadership of Jeremy
Corbin and where it might go next and
I'm speaking with Damon McBride who Once
Upon a Time looked after quite
ferociously actually Gordon Brown and
very uh grateful for it was Mr Brown as
well he might be Dem and thanks for
staying on on for the second half let's
look at the shadow cabinet that Mr
Corbin has uh
constructed some might say I would say
uh that he gave away a little too much
and in so far as he did he actually gave
himself an additional problem of gender
perceiv gender uh imbalance how did you
see the shadow cabinet that emerged yeah
I mean I think I think it was almost as
though and you get politicians that do
this sometimes there's an appointment
really want to make and then they feel
they've got to make compensating
appointments uh to sort of reassure
another wing of the party so the
appointment he really wanted to make was
John mcdonal becoming Shadow Chancellor
uh which I think was essential in terms
of him being able to sort of bind the
two of them together and sort of secure
his you know if you like secure the
revolution that they've just achieved um
but then I think he felt he needed to
make compensating appointments so you
get sort of Andy Burnham coming into a
top position Hillary Ben into a top
position and they're sort of very safe
appointments but there's nothing radical
about them and
you know as you say he's giving a bit
away there because these are not people
that are ideological soulmates they're
not people that are really with going to
go along with his agenda on the contrary
uh Hillary Ben the son of Tony Ben the
late and great Tony Ben was out uh
confronting Jeremy Corbin within 24
hours on the issue of the European Union
and the Cameron negotiations and on the
Trident uh issue is going to be a very
very important uh load star for Jeremy
Corbin
uh Hillary Ben's just not on side with
him so you could make the case for one
of those two getting the job but giving
both of them a job seemed to me perhaps
a bit of a hostage to Fortune but let's
look ahead uh Jeremy stabilized the ship
did really well at pmqs perhaps has
stumbled not stumbled come up with uh a
good formula for
pmqs from Wednesday to Wednesday I
expect you'll not be around the House of
Commons he'll be around the country
building on this revolution aiming for
that one magic 1 million Members Mark
which is definitely within his grasp uh
now um is that what you would advise if
you were at his side yeah but he's got
to do both I think I think they've got
to make a slight adjustment from going
from campaign mode to leadership mode
now now during a campaign which is
effectively only reaching a sort of you
know very small bit of the population
the rest of the population largely
ignored it and most of the media did as
well um it energized and mobilized that
small group of people and and got
hundreds of thousands more to join the
party and did that very successfully and
you can do that through rallies in
different different towns you can do it
through social media and energize that
group of people but if you want to reach
the public as a whole You've got to do
more than that it can't just be about
rallies and it can't just be about
social media so he does have to engage
with the mainstream media in some ways
or have trusted ministers that are on
side not not the ones that are going to
contradict his policy positions that are
going to go out and be his cheerleaders
on on the national news media I mean I
found myself acting as a bit of a
cheerleader for him over recent days and
this difficult week that he's had just
because nobody else is doing it and you
know that's an extraordinary position
for a leader to find himself in so he
needs trusted colleagues that are going
to do that but at some point he needs to
go out and start doing that himself
setpiece big interviews with major
broadcasters and the major newspapers
going out there and trying to sell
himself to The Wider public problem is
the the media the mainstream media is
treating him like he's a hunted animal
rather than the landslide Victor and the
leader of Her Majesty's opposition a
position worthy of respect by any
standards um I suppose you'll be
apprehensive about big sitdown
interviews with the top people who who
should he go to First who who would he
go to First well he should have done
that interview with Andrew Mah on the
first Sunday he became leader although
I mean he did the worst of all worlds
which is saying they do it then pulling
out and you know that happened across
the board with quite a few of his uh his
interviews over this first week so you
know you've got to do those big setpiece
things he'll have to do them at the
labor Party Conference but also you you
you can what what I would definitely
advise him to do is to get out there
into the regional media as well you know
they would bite his hand off the
regional media the most trusted media
there is get on the local radio go into
those local um newspapers and give them
interviews whenever he goes to visit
these towns and that's the way to sort
of you know reach that wider public as
well there's quite a stark contrast
between the good and honest man home
spun wearing a vest tweed jacket uh a
guy who's obviously not spent you know
an hour in front of the mirror getting
makeup sprayed on him and the Flashman
David
Cameron uh pumped up uh Born To Rule
bullying d boy uh but of of course it
will not be David Cameron that uh Jeremy
fights in the general election if God
spares us all uh in
20120 it'll most likely won't it be
George Osborne what will that contest
look like well I mean it's an even more
St contrast than Corbin versus Cameron
because in some ways at least Cameron
has the popular touch you know we can't
deny that much as much as you know we
might hate it um but Osborne has no
popular touch much does he try to work
on it and Osborne is a man that is
totally
unrecognizable in terms of the way he
spoke the way he looked and that kind of
thing from the politician that came in
five five years ago he is spun he's spun
to the N degree and that's got to be the
contrast that Jeremy portrays it would
be a bit more difficult for Jer if he
was up against Boris Johnson who again
is one of those characters that is able
to present himself to the public as a
bit authentic and unspun and uh you know
equally happily with equally happy to
look a bit disheveled at times so I
think Corbin should want that contest
against George Jor not least because if
Jeremy Corbin's going to succeed over
the next 5 years he needs it to be
because of the economy now no one would
wish there to be an economic crisis but
if there is Jeremy Corbin's prescription
for for that crisis that we've got to
reshape society and do our economy
fundamentally differently that will
suddenly have a resonance that it might
not at the moment with the wider public
and Osborne would be exactly the man
he'd want in the frame to to be oppos I
I I'm really glad that it looks like
it's going to be Osborne I think he's
the best possible opponent for Jeremy
Corbin to fight but let's talk uh um
about Scotland uh which is potentially a
place only potentially where a Jeremy
Corbin labor party could make
significant gains in parliamentary seats
and in share of the vote not least
because uh things are so bad uh but once
Scotland was a great Labor stronghold
and now of course it isn't but a real
labor leader capital r real labor leader
Jeremy Corbin on the Trident issue on
issu of austerity and all the other
policy planks that he has must stand a
real Choice a real chance rather of uh
of outflanking the the SNP and winning
people come back home to labor don't you
think yeah exactly and and I've heard
people on on radio shows this week
who've been saying exactly that you you
you'll have some people that will never
forgive labor just the you know as the
brand uh for siding with the Tories in
the referendum debate and those people
have almost sort of Gone full scale over
to the Nationalist side but there is a
sort of another huge sthe of people I a
good chunk of that S&P vote that
deserted labor because they said that
party doesn't represent me anymore as
they showed during the referendum
debates and and Jeremy Corbin can wipe
that away with what I mean he would
never have made the mistake of sharing a
platform with the Tories and he would
have made the workingclass case the
workers case for why we need to stay in
the union and and that is what that is
what Jeremy Corbin can do so I I think
he's got a massive opportunity to to
reclaim that ground in Scotland and you
can see you know he's the one L
politician that's gone to Scotland over
recent times and been able to stand in
town halls without having things thrown
at him and instead he gets enthusiastic
crowds and he's got to I think one of
the first good announcements that he
made was that he's going to spend one
day a month in Scotland uh you know
over this over the course of his
leadership his crowds were nearly as big
as mine uh the the the irony of that uh
should not be lost the man being
troduced for refusing to sing the
national anthem may be the one man who
can save the union of Scotland and
England Keep the Country together stop
it being severed uh across the middle
and how by being labor by being being
the real genuine article the real uh
deal I think this one day a week that
he's going to spend there the one day
Tom Watson's going to spend there these
could be amongst the most uh valuable uh
days here's the other challenge George
he can win back those voters that
deserted labor the Big Challenge he's
got is can he win back the voters that
deserted labor to go to ukip that's what
I was that's what I was going to turn to
let me turn to that the white working
class English people who feel that labor
in the Blair era deserted them and have
now gone to ukip can someone like Jeremy
win them back it depends because if they
believe that the the cause of all their
ills is immigration and Europe as many
of those people do and felt the labor
didn't understand that and that's why UK
proved attracted for them Jeremy's not
going to be able to to persuade those
people back what he can do has changed
the course changed the nature of the
discourse he can persuade those people
it's not immigration it's not Europe
people that come here from foreign
countries are in the same boat as you
the real problem is the corporations and
the conservative party that are always
going to keep you where you are that are
never going to let you achieve your
Ambitions and he has to almost do what
the labor movement had to do decades and
decades ago which is bring together the
white working class with the interests
of Irish immigrants black Caribbean
immigrants and say look you're all part
you're all in the same boat and we are
the party that represents you and that's
that's the big challenge but it'll be
fascinating to see him do that because
no lab politician has had the guts to do
that no La politician has gone out to
those people and said yes we are the
party of working people uh because
they've been so desperately Keen to get
into the centerr because what they've
been trying to
do the sort of Craven nature that Blair
had about this is say well what really
matters to us is winning over
conservative voters and that's not the
challenge for labor it needs to win back
its own voters needs to win back its own
voters who have stopped voting its own
voters who are voting ukip its own
voters who are voting nationalist its
own voters who are voting green there's
more than enough voters there to win an
election yeah and a whole generation of
young voters that are just totally
alienated and turned off politics
entirely and would never bother tuning
in and that's you know those are all
those groups of people that we've talked
about have been energized by what Jeremy
Corbin has done so far in the party and
he needs to take that to the rest of the
country jez we can now I know that
Jeremy watches the show so if you're
watching Jeremy hire this
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man it's been quite a week we could have
gone on speaking for another half hour
but we've run out of time and it's the
end of the show I hope you'll join me
again next week until then it's been
marvelous
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oh